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Friday, December 7, 2012

VIDEO Sister Wives: Episode 4 "Polygamist Cults"





199 comments:

  1. Wow - I felt terrible for Kollene after watching that clip. What a terrible first memory to have, that of your father beating you.

    After seeing the preview on last week's SW show I thought she had a point, but was a little rude about it, but I can certainly see why she feels so strongly.

    I'm interested to see this week's show and I sincerely HOPE this is not one of the shows where all the good stuff is in the previews OR nothing in the previews actually makes the show.

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    1. U know a few people have mentioned her being rude, but IMO, I think she's speaking her mind & boldly saying just what most of us thinks. Most of the folks around the Browns including journalists are "too nice", IMO & I'm tired of the Browns thinking that everyone should walk on egg shells w/ their feelings.

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    2. yeah, i just hear her telling it like it is and was - FOR HER! and she's a survivor and an advocate now AGAINST religiously mandated polygamy cause she knows it's not really a choice if you're born into it. Even if you CHOOSE to not do it but still stay in your faith, you know you're not going to attain your ultimate exaltation per your belief system. Some of the mormonism plyg cults are taught that you will actually be condemned to HELL for not choosing to participate in polygamy and constant child bearing. SOME CHOICE!!

      This is why everyone's so adamant about telling Janelle and Christine to just leave. But what people fail to realize is that they have to be deprogrammed and given something else to replace that belief system with or the fear factor is too strong and all-encompassing. Flora Jessops has stated that sadly alot of them that they get out of the plyg compounds to begin with end up going back cause they can't get themselves deprogrammed from their lifelong religious indoctrination and they also just want to get back to their own families left there cause that's all they know. They're also uneducated and mostly unskilled and can't make it financially on the outside either. It's a complete mindf**k of the greatest proportion to leave and your odds of getting past it all are the younger the better like this Kolleen has done. But i guarantee you, it still wasn't easy for her. She went back the first time and now has stayed out so far her second time out. Let's hope she can stay out and move forward and make it work. I think she can. Her anger actually right now will help her to do that.

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    3. Couldn't agree with you more, Anonymous 8:46 am....I have posted twice about people on here rooting for Janelle and Christine to leave, but it's not as simple as walking out the door, thank you for explaining why....very sad to read about the deprogramming, that tells me this is not a 'lifestyle', it's a cult controlled by men who are experts at brainwashing women....makes me think of Jim Jones, Jonestown and drinking the Kool-Aid....very very scary and sad....but there's a ray of hope because if Kolleen can do it, others can, too....

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    4. I absolutely agree, deprogramming of some sort has to be part of their leaving or I can't imagine anyone would be successful at it.

      As far as Kollene, I'm thrilled that she made the decision to leave again and I agree that I think she can make it and be successful. She seems like she has her head screwed on right and is strong, both of which are so important.

      I'd think almost as bad as the ingrained brainwashing, these women also have to fear their "husband" or others from their church coming after them. So many of these sects will not allow a woman to leave, probably out of fear that it would encourage other women to leave.

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  2. I must admit, I look forward to reading your blog each day! I can't believe it but I do! Will you have time to post an update about those ridiculous houses soon? Thanks for great entertainment!

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  3. Wow...how very sad that these "kids" (Maddie, as shown in this clip) have to be put in the position of wanting to proclaim their personal views about Polygamy; but then as they state their mind and heart's direction, they have to also be so concerned with *not* vilifying their parents' choices to live the Plyg lifestyle.

    Do these parents (all Plygs) really ever give thought and caring to understand what stress they are heaping on their innocent children as these children grow into young adulthood ??????

    The adults can just *wax on and on* about *their* bliss in the Principle...and they all consistently do....!!!
    But....what about the many, many children they choose to produce and inflict *their* choices on ????

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    1. "The adults can just *wax on and on* about *their* bliss in the Principle...and they all consistently do....!!!
      But....what about the many, many children they choose to produce and inflict *their* choices on ????" ----- I see them doing that as no different than parents in other religions. It's just what some do, and have done, since the beginning of time.

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    2. You make a good point, Karma. It happens in many other religions and life styles.

      However, thankfully, few parents choose to open their beliefs and their lives....*and their children's lives*....to public scrutiny, all for fame and money.

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  4. Dear Maddie...wow..your folks might be 'good people' but also very confused and mislead people who are taking their own offspring on a crazy ride! Saty strong and do not buy into the crap your folks are trying to feed you! Kody dudes own language is always about 'buying or selling' ideas...do NOT NOT buy into it. It is a falsehood.

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  5. From what I have read, the Kingston Group is very, very reclusive and the women have very little freedom. They are often living is awful conditions with bunches of kids and are barely supported by their "husbands". And there is also a lot of intermarriage as it is a very closed group.

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    1. From what I understand, the Kingston group is very difficult to leave. I applaud Kollene for doing it. I believe it was Rowena Erickson, a former member of the Kingston group who said that the people had actually been killed for trying to leave. I can hardly wait to watch this episode.

      In the promo for this weeks episode, Christine, tearfully, says that she had no idea that men could be such 'bastards'. I find this very difficult to believe. Either she really is sheltered or she is simply lying. What I've learned from reading several books and/or watching documentaries featuring former polygamist, many of these groups close relatives in various groups via marriage as well as people going off and forming splinter groups. Possibly, the AUB is not as associated with the other groups. I still don't buy that Christine never heard of the extreme abuse in some of the other groups. Again, I cannot wait to see this week's episode.

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    2. I think Christine is lying for the drama and camera time. If you are going to tell me that Meri is going to run a 5K for a foundation that saves people from these disturbing plyg cults and not have a discussion with any of her "sisterwives" about how important it is and what it means to her to do this. I cry foul. They know!

      And as we know...Christine is quite the silly little liar.

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    3. THAT is total BS - because remember over a YEAR ago they did that Boston lecture and discussed Warren Jeffs? And Christine is playing all innocent like she doesn't KNOW??? please.

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    4. and they've also been on with those other teen plyg escapees w/ Carolyn Jessop on Anderson Cooper's talk show - TWICE!

      geez - these people!! does no one - including TCL - care about how disingenuous and absolutely false all this episode scripting was to the majority of viewers???

      How can Christine have been a public advocate for years in Utah and not have a clue about the rampant abuse of the known polygamous sects there?? oh, please!!

      TLC (and Browns) - stop insulting our intelligence w/your ridiculous lies.

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  6. I get the feeling that sadly, they will skirt around the real problems with the religion of Polygamy or the LDS. The basic beliefs are that there is a celestial heaven, and only the man can call you up. Direct Blasphemy. The bible clearly states that people from all nations will be called to heaven. When you take a good look at organized religion, all have their faults, but most in the Christian realm believe that Jesus is the son of Christ, and only God will say if you are in heaven or not.
    This show will skirt around and show nothing.

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  7. Polygamy as practised by various Fundamentalist Mormon groups is always emotionally abusive and I think Kollene has understood that on a level that the Brown kids have not.

    The wives constantly have to vy for the husband's attention and that alone puts them at his mercy of doling out affection whenever he feels like it. In a marriage both partners should be equal and equally devoted to each other. Now each wife gives 100% of her time, love, etc. to the husband but the husband only gives them a fraction of his. The more wives he has the less time, resources and love he has for each.

    A man who has multiple wives cannot fully share himself with any one of them because he always has to keep the needs of his other wives in the back of his mind. He can never simply decide to spontaneously take one wife on a weekend getaway because the others would be jealous.

    In a way the husband becomes a parent to the wives, they are indeed treated by him as if they were sisters among which he (as a father figure) has to divide his attention and resources. That's why many of them (e.g. Christine and Meri )never grow up. Plus, if they grew up in a polygamist household they probably never got a lot of time and affection from their own father so they are hungry to get the fatherly husband's affection.

    If I were in Maddie's shoes I'd probably defend my parents too. Not because I'd believe them to be right, but because there is something inherently saddening about hearing other people bash the way your parents live and it is almost an instinct to defend your family. Maddie may nevertheless know (whether consciously or not) that her parents' lifestyle is not right.

    With the husband having so much power he almost inevitably develops into a tyrant of some sort or another. Kollene mentions her father was physically abusive, Kody manipulates his wives in his narcissistic way and in every Fundamentalist Mormon biography I have seen so far the husbands are described as being abusive in one way or another.

    The whole concept of polygamy facilitates an abusive environment for those involved. For that reason alone it should remain illegal and I am sick of the Browns, the Dargers and other polygamists who whine about the fear of their children being taken away.

    They knew what they were getting into when they decided to be in a plural marriage. Sure, polygamy is part of their faith but like any religious person they are still at freedom to decide which practices of their faith to enter into and which not. I am impressed with Kollene for her outspokenness and I have to agree that no person with a fully functioning brain would want enter such an abusive lifestyle.

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    1. very well said, sarina....excellent points!

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    2. Sarina, your comment is dead on. I could not have wait it better. I do believe that these women are brain-washed. Kody is not a God. I cannot understand that these women believe that their eternity lies with Kody and him calling them to heaven. How can they trust what he says. What if he does not call them. Where do they think they will go for eternity. Polygamy will never be legal. There are too many factors involved in making this legal. I always wonder about health insurance for the kids. Is this the reason Robin had King Sol at home. How is Kody paying for health insurance on a family of 22. If polygamy was legal, can you imagine how much the rest of us non-polygamists would have to pay due to our co-workers number of dependents. If polygamy is made legal, women would also have the right to marry multiple men. Can you imagine the confusion in determining which husband is your baby daddy. I am so glad that Kollen was able to get out. I also hope that TLC show us what we are seeing in the previews. It is not putting polygamy in a positive light and will not please Kody and the wives. I am surprised they allowed their kids to be filmed helping other kids escape from polygamy. You can't have it both ways. I understand they want to support their parents but do they honestly feel that polygamy is ok, if you are good people. I wonder if Mariah would choose polygamy if she had to share her father like the other kids. When Kody is at Meri's house he can devote all his time to the both of them. I know that they all lived in the same home in Lehi, but they all had their own separate space and kitchen. I also would like to know if they really got the homes. Or, did they do this for the drama. I think that TLC is trying real hard to get some viewers. One preview has Kody asking Meri are we going to have a baby. Makes it sound like someone is pregnant already.

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    3. Well actually if it was the other way round - wives with mĂșltiple husbands - there's always DNA testing. In fact I don't know why it isn't mandatory nowadays.

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    4. Right or wrong, these teens love their parents. Just like the rest of us, we can vent about our own families but don't want to hear outsiders criticizing them to us. It's completely normal. I just feel bad that these teens have been put in this position (by their parents) to even have to publicly defend their parents like this. Being a teen in itself is hard enough and has enough ups and downs without this added to their mix.

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    5. "Right or wrong, these teens love their parents. Just like the rest of us, we can vent about our own families but don't want to hear outsiders criticizing them to us. It's completely normal."

      ***I just feel bad that these teens have been put in this position (by their parents) to even have to publicly defend their parents like this. Being a teen in itself is hard enough and has enough ups and downs without this added to their mix.***

      EXACTLY !!!! That is the point !!

      This is part of the collateral damage of polygamy.
      And certainly it is part of the fallout of going "public" for these kids!!!!

      All fine and dandy for the parents' egos and their bank accounts.....
      But what about the kids???!!!

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    6. As far as the health insurance issue - I'm guessing that before the show, at least part of the fam was getting it thru Utah's equivalent of MediCal - but now - I'm supposing they get some sort of group rate thru their Brown Family Entertainment - that is if Kody was responsible enough to set something up...

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  8. well, this Kolleen is very cute and articulate. Kudos to her for managing to get out permanently at such a young age. She actually stands a chance of fully recovering and living a long and happy life plyg free. yay for Kolleen!! hoping many more can follow her out.

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    1. this is one of the best posts i have ever read, from a person who know koko very well I know she will appreciate it.

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    2. aw, KoKo fits her looks/personality! cute nickname for her. i hope we hear more from her and what she's doing to move on. There's alot of peeps here (and I'm sure ones in her life now) that are pulling for her. It takes courage and determination to leave that religious vortex. I'm glad she's escaped and wish her all the best on her continued life journey. She's got a lot of promise ahead for happiness!

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    3. I'llfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 10, 2012 at 11:10 AM

      I agree with Anon 7:56 - Kolleen is impressive in her ability to think for herself and she is good at expressing herself. She certainly has tons of potential to be very successful in life. Hopefully, she will be able to laugh and have fun someday. She deserves some happiness. I thought the other kids who had left their families were good kids too -- maybe not as outgoing, but you have to give them all a thumbs up for being brave and also for sharing on TV.

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    4. anonymous 7:56 thank you, she is doing very well she is a very strong person trust me i know as i have been dating her for over a year now thank both of you very much.

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    5. aw, that's great, anony 3:16!! Best wishes and happiness to both of you!! XOX

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  9. Exactly! That is why we have LAWS. To draw clear boundaries. We clearly see the abuse and neglect going on in these families. What if a religion popped up from some lunatic these days that said "you have to murder people to get into heaven". That may seem like a stretch but time and time again humanity has shown that without laws (and even with laws in place), we can go "there" and quickly.

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    1. True, true Anon 11:19. That is why we need laws. Nowadays, you can have a "church" of anything and that is sad and frightening.

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  10. This makes me have such a sad :( :( :( At least that girl managed to run away from her abusive father and pretty recently. Her hair is still all messed up from the escape.

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    1. I just see her cute and funky hair as one of her rebellion statements. Too many of those plyg cults make you wear your hair a certain way and she's taking full advantage of being able to wear her hair and color it any damn way she chooses to. Good for her!! That a strong sign of reclaiming her individuality and her own inner strength that will help her overcome her rotten little childhood.

      Did anyone notice the fundy hairstyles all of Darger's wives had in their earlier pictures with him but now they claim to be "orthodox" mormons and wear current hairstyles and clothes? It's a very public(and personal) breakaway statement to their sect they've broken away from.

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    2. I think her hair suits her, and she is too cute! Also, I noticed too that the Dargers sure used to have that old school polygamy look going. They look totally different (and better) now.

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    3. If my memory serves me correctly, the Darger wives had once belonged to the FLDS group. I think it was one of the twins who said on Oprah that they had originally lived in Colorado City. Many of the FLDS members got the courage to leave and form a splinter groups, when Warren Jeffs was starting to take over. I'm not sure if this was before Warren's father had died or not, but I'm thinking that it was prior to Warren's complete take over of the FLDS. If anyone has more info on this, please share.

      Most recently, the group headed by Winston Blackmore, of Bountiful BC, Canada has been shifting away from the FLDS. Winston Blackmore even allowed one of his sons, who does not plan to practice the principle, to marry a mainstream Mormon. Winston has also allowed the female members of the group to wear more modern looking clothing and hairstyles. I do, however, question his motives, though. Personally, I think he's just doing it to gain support from non-polygamist in an effort to keep the Canadian feds off his butt. There is a video on Youtube about the changes in Bountiful. I think it was the Canadian investigative TV show, 6 x 9, that covered the story about the changes in Bountiful.

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  11. I am worried that Kolleen is going to come under fire for expressing her views. Kolleen, if you see this please know that I am proud of you for getting out of that abusive situation and wish you all the best in life! :)

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    1. {{{KoKo}}} you're beautiful and strong and you go girl!!

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    2. I certainly do not want to see her be vilified for her views. Her opinions and insights are based on her first hand experience. No one should take that away from her. There are too many others who have left groups like the Kingstons, who's stories validate hers. She needs to get the word out to the masses. Keep on keepin' on, Kollene!!

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    3. Evil is Kody saying, "These kids are telling me about the bad experiences they have had and for some reason I am feeling like it's my obligation to shoulder this and say, no its really not that way and how do I do that". He owes them a huge apology for trying to negate their experience and we should not be watching this evil, controlling jackass anymore. I think that one statement of his sums up his beyond stupidity, he is a delusional dangerous man, who has in fact shown us just what a polygamist is like

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    4. There are many forms of abuse...physical, sexual, emotional, mental are just a few. I found it funny to sit there and see the interaction at the table with the kids, telling the Browns all the different abuses that they endured. Yet the Brown kids said that that is not how it is in their family...then they cut to a commercial and you have Christine crying and telling Kody that her kids have not seen him for over a week and a half. Uhhhhh hello...that sure didn't look good!

      I also found it odd that they did not send a parent with the Brown kids and that Mariah did not go....isn't it her mother that ran a 5K in support for this type of organization?????

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    5. Anon 11:17 said,"He owes them a huge apology for trying to negate their experience and we should not be watching this evil, controlling jackass anymore."

      I could not believe what he said either. How dare he? Is he really that daft? Did he have a lobotomy or something when he was younger. Is that why he's such a moron? I wanted to tear what little dry, damaged, overprocessed hair he has left out of his head. He is totally delusional. He thinks it's his job to sway these survivors back into polygamy. What a complete narcissistic bung hole!!

      And what about Sobbin' Robyn? I guess she wasn't getting enough attention. She starts talking about her abusive ex husbandin a round about way. Kody and Robyn are such arrogant self-centered fools. They think everything is about them. Those two deserve each other.

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    6. I can't believe I'm defending Robyn, but I believe the point she was trying to make was that the men in these cults are who gets the benefit of the doubt, just as Meri tried to bestow. (I was surprised, actually, that she would counter anything the queen bitch would say.) For the purpose of the discussion they were having, Robyn's point was quite relevant. I've never, ever heard of a polygamous group rallying behind a woman. The men are defended, protected, and lied for. Even Maddie, as much as like her, did THE SAME THING. She has spoken repeatedly of the drama, and of how promises made have always been promises broken. If she doesn't see the abuse her mother has suffered, she's not as smart as I thought. Krody put on quite the performance for Kollene, but we know better. They all cover for the idiot. I certainly don't know Robyn's story, but I got the point she was trying to make. Only time will tell if she suffers the special Brown variety of abuse.



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  12. Who is rescuing who? Go Kollene!! Maybe some of what she says will stick in Aspyn's head.

    And, Maddie...some of your parents are NOT good people. Your mother has suffered a lifetime of abuse by Meri. Kody refused to stand up for your mother. Your mother is NOT "strong"!! She is depressed, insecure, overweight, and unloved. You are too young and naive to connect your revulsion to polygamy with the way your mother has been treated--what you witnessed your whole life.

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    1. Thegoldentablet, Exactly. Children will defend their parents to the end, but she knows deep down how her mother has been treated. I'm sure Janelle rants and raves about Meri behind her back and in front of Maddie and her siblings, as do all passive aggresive people. They never confront the person who is mean to them, but rant and rave behind their backs, I know, because I am unfortunately one of them.

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    2. I think Jenelle is really between a rock and hard place here, and I think to assert that she has no strength of character is unfair. I think she has been treated badly by Meri and by Kody as well. In one of this seasons couch interviews she answered one of Meri's lame and insensitive apologies by saying she felt Cody's lack of knowing how to handle conflict among the wives had not helped their situation.

      She strikes me as the most insightful of the parents ( her kids seem the brightest as well). She has ALOT of responsibility with all those kids to think about, no support from her "husband" and I think her mother actually married Cody's father! Where can this woman turn? Like most people here, I feel for her and wish her all the best.

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    3. I DO NOT think Janelle bashes and bad mouths the other sister wives and Kody in front of her kids. How did you come to that conclusion? Because she doesn't assert herself and avoids confrontation? That's ridiculous to assume that all people who are like that, do passive aggressive doo doo behind the scenes. IMO, Janelle is not at all like that. I feel that the reason her kids are so awesome and insightful is because Janelle DOESN'T bash the others and they are smart enough to see that even though she is treated like crap, she takes the high road. They don't hate Kody or talk poorly about him when they talk about the reasons they don't want to choose polygamy and I think that says LOADS about Janelle's character and parenting. IMO.

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    4. Anon 7pm said, "I think Jenelle is really between a rock and hard place here, and I think to assert that she has no strength of character is unfair. I think she has been treated badly by Meri and by Kody as well. In one of this seasons couch interviews she answered one of Meri's lame and insensitive apologies by saying she felt Cody's lack of knowing how to handle conflict among the wives had not helped their situation."

      "She has ALOT of responsibility with all those kids to think about, no support from her "husband" and I think her mother actually married Cody's father! Where can this woman turn?"

      Precisely!!! I, truly, believe from the depths of my soul that Janelle wants out. I really feel for her plight. She knows she needs to get out, but is smart enough to know that she lacks the outside support. We should form a group called Save Janelle And Her Kids. If only she knew how many of us would offer our support to her and her family. I don't simply mean financially either. Janelle was not born into polygamy. Somewhere inside her is a person, who already has the personal skills to live on the 'outside', but those qualities have been buried under years of abuse at Meri's and Kody's hands. She needs to rediscover herself and her self esteem back.

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    5. You know, I personally don't feel particularly sorry for Janelle. She is not stuck in polygamy as everyone seems to say, and she's proven it twice. She left her first marriage after less than a year, if I remember. Just walked away. And she walked away from Cody, too. Granted, she eventually came back for some reason, but the point being, the woman obviously doesn't feel stuck, because she's left the situation twice. Once permanently, once until she felt okay to return.

      Honestly, there is part of me that thinks Janelle is one of those people who enjoys, perhaps not even consciously, but enjoys nonetheless, playing the victim/martyr. This about this...she sits there with a stoic look on her face, not defending herself, letting herself seemingly be attacked/abused without fighting back...and everybody feels sorry for poor Janelle who has no self esteem. And while the other three wives are choosing the biggest houses possible, Janelle is cutting corners, which gives everyone the impression she's the only one who is practical, the other wives just walk all over her, poor, poor Janelle, once again getting the short end of the stick.

      Does anyone else see what she might be getting emotionally from playing this role, or is it just me?

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    6. Janelle needs a lot of private therapy. She lost herself and caved in to Meri's bullying and First Wife status w/Kody so many years ago, she doesn't even know who she is anymore. I don't see her just walking away on her own. She's convinced she doesn't really have the power to do that. She'd also have to stand up to Kody and other wives for "breaking up the family" as well as her own little brainwashed kids.

      I'm sure she thinks about all that and it's overwhelming to her emotionally. (remember now her own mother who also wasn't raised in polygamy is now happily married to Kody's dad and her mom gets along well with her sister wife.) She just keeps picking the "lesser of the two evils" in her situation and continues to stay and "endure to the end" as their religion teaches.

      This whole family is a true effed up hot mess in every way. Most of them don't have a clue as to why and think it's all just "normal." It's like they got a small glimpse of "wtf's wrong with our family?" when they took that trip w/Dargers. They're mostly envious of them now but don't have the emotional/educational tools needed to get organized and all on the same page like Dargers. (not that I'm a Team Darger fan either by any means. I'm too well-versed in religiously mandated polygamy and am against it. Period.)

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    7. Jenelle IS stuck right now with this family...she has a contract with TLC and it's bringing in the $$$$$$$$$$$ right now for her and her kids.

      Hang in there Jenelle...play it right, don't get over your head in debt. Take care of your bills and your credit...when the ship has sunk, pick yourself up and start all over again ON YOUR OWN! With the money you have stuck away for that rainy day!

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    8. ANON 5:18 - I think you're right on the money - Janelle IS playing the martyr card!!! She WANTS people to feel sorry for her. I used to feel sorry for her, but I so do NOT these days. As you said, she's left twice before...

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    9. I actually think that out of all of the Jenelle is the one who truly has what Mormons would call a testimony. She believes spiritually in what she is doing. She may want out, but as long as she believes, she isn't going anywhere, no matter what else is going on. She is the only one who actually uses religious language in the way she talks about her relationship to Kody and the other wives -- remember the way she talked about Robyn coming into the family -- she had a physical experience (some might call it a panic attack....) but she interpreted it as a physical sign that this had to be. It's not unlike the Dargers talking about how they "knew" that Valerie was to come into their family.

      The other women have a cultural or familial relationship with polygamy, which doesn't mean they don't believe things, but I don't think their spiritual connection to polygamy is a strong as Janelle's. And again, she didn't leave polygamy - there is a long traditional of polygamist wives living far away from other wives. You do not have to be living in the same house or even having a physical relationship with the man. You simply must be sealed to him and have him call you in the celestial kingdom. Janelle's really never left. I doubt she ever will.

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    10. I cannot and do not feel sorry for any of the so called sister wives. They made the choice to be with one man and share him and keep on making babies with him. Why I will never know. It is a choice. They choose to stay in an abusive relationship and that is exactly what it is. I did watch part of the last episode and I nearly pee'd my pants at Christine's comments "I never knew men could be such bastards". Just take a look at the one you call your husband Christine. And they all need homes at the cost of $400,000 plus each? In a gated community? They have no jobs...obviously all are collecting some kind of government assistance. And before any one says I am dogging welfare recipients. Not in the least. But government assistance is supposed to be a hand up not a hand out. Whether or not these women have a cultural or familial relationship with polygamy isn't the point. You would think in this day and age they would take agood look at themselves and their children. All 4 women look miserable. You cannot tell me they love Kody the Kreep or that any of them are truly happy with the status quo. The kids are a mess. I feel for them. They sure didn't ask for this train wreck of a life and that TLC promotes this mess is appalling. Polygamy is against the law. It is against all that is human and natural. Being married to one person is tough enough...raising a family with just the man and wife is tough...I cannot imagine sharing my life with others and thinking this is my way into heaven...by living in a perpetual hell. The Browns know darn well that there is nothing good about any of the polygimist cults. They must think we are all stupid and fall for their show and thats all it is...a show. A goofy looking man who needs a damn haircut, and needs to get rid of the sports car. 4 women who have no idea what real life is....and 22 kids who are all paying the price for their parents selfish lifestyle. I applaud those folks who have the courage to get out and speak out against polygamy. Kody certainly gets it..although he won't admit it. He supports this abusive life style and because he does he is no better than any one else who belongs and supports the polygamist cult life. he is a monster...a baby making fool who should be ashamed of himself in front of all those kids he doesn't support. Obviously he couldn't support just Meri...who needs are al reality check...yes, she needs a $400,000 home and wet bar...grow up.

      Delete
  13. I think she just styled it that way on purpose.

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  14. Oh Maddie :(. Strength is not sharing your husband. Strength is not making do with less attention and affection that you deserve. Strength is taking your kids and leaving an abusive relationship. What a shame that she's bought into the "strength" myth.

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  15. I'm thinking the problem with this whole situation with having the kids visit other kids in the Polygamy "lifestyle" is that there seems to be SO many branches and different forms of "the lifestyle" that the Brown kids can't understand. The Brown kids have had a GREAT family life, but it looks as though the kids they are visiting did not, and they are very bitter toward the religion. Those kids have as much right to feel the way they do...as much as the Brown kids can say what a great experience they have had.

    I have a feeling that the girl (Colleen) has been watching the "Sisterwives" and probably sees exactly what we see, from our perspective....sadness, jealousy, drama with this "lifestyle"

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  16. I really hope my long comment made it through.

    So the woman in the video is 19 year old Kollene Snow. Her parents changed the locks on their door to prevent her from picking up her stuff.

    19-year-old Kollene Snow was in a polygamous family who sought out Holding Out Help after years of feeling alone and struggling to leave. "They've helped me feel like I can move forward and I am not stuck," said Snow. "There was a lot of things that happened in there. There's a lot of controlling, a lot of lying and manipulation and a lot of incest. I just didn't want to be part of it and I felt like I had no freedom."
    From here: http://childbrides.org/action.html

    I hope this is fake, but Pipl says that she is related to a guy from Utah named "Kold Snow". Um...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Please elaborate for those of us who don't know. Who is Kold Snow?

      Delete
  17. This is why polygamy documentaries and personal books written by ex-plygs are far more educational about the polygamous lifestyles themselves than these heavily scripted so-called "reality" shows. They're really just soap opera scripts with an element of truth to them. that's all. ;')

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  18. I think Kollene is a very brave and strong young women, but she will spend the rest of her life struggling with the life style she was brought up in. Holding out help is a wonderful organization and was recently featured on 20/20. The Brown children have been extremely sheltered in their views regarding polygamy, and have only seen The Brown chaos that it can create.
    In an interview shortly after the arrest of Warren Jeffs; Valerie and Vicki Darger and Christine Brown both agree that the charges against Jeffs were exaggerated. I personally do not believe the charges were made up and exaggerated. Warren Jeffs is a criminal, and he did use his position of authority to sexually abuse children. You can view the wives video here: http://lovetimesthree.com/vicki-and-valerie-interview/
    Though I respect The Darger families commitment to what they believe is truly a religious conviction, both The Dargers and The Browns are viewing polygamy through rose colored glasses.

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    Replies
    1. I can see clearly nowDecember 8, 2012 at 11:19 AM

      Thanks for the links Y for Wyoming. I don't know how Christine manages to keep those rose colored glasses on her head. She claims not to believe in marriages under the age of 18, but they certainly happen in AUB, her polygamist group. Her own grandfather, Rulon Allred, "married" two 15 year old girls. In addition, he had men on his "Priesthood Council" who sexually abused children. I think she's wearing a blindfold, not glasses.

      Delete
    2. I'd Marry BillDecember 8, 2012 at 8:32 PM

      That is disgusting. I can't believe Christine and the V Twins said that. I used to like Christine more than the other wives but not anymore. I think she knows more than what she puts on but thinks if she denies it enough it will make it go away. I mean that in regards to everything, the Jeffs, the AUB, and her own damn family.

      Delete
    3. Long time lurker...finally HAVE to comment. HOW can Christine sit there and say " I had no idea men could be such bastards"? Really? Wasn't her Grandfather the doctor Rulon Allred killed by her aunt who carried out the blood atonement dictated by her uncle? And she had no idea everything wasnt sunshine and rainbows? AND Robyn crying acting all surprised about things the kids were saying? She was married to a Jesspp for crying outloud! Im a Catholic in Illinois and know this stuff and they want us to believe they didnt know? Come on!

      Delete
  19. Maddie you might support your parents 100% but is your father really supporting you? Is his name on your birth certificate? Did your mom receive government benefits by claiming she was a single mother of 6 and unaware of where the father was? Your mom is imprisoned by a belief that her only way to heaven is through your father, Kody. Your mom appears to be miserable and at the end of her rope. Support your mother by standing up for her. She has been abused for years, help her leave this mess.

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    1. I don't think it needs to be Maddie's job to help her mother leave her marriage. It's none of the kid's job to do that w/any of their moms. they're still KIDS! Let's not try to pile any extra on them that they don't have to take on and aren't prepared emotionally nor financially to do so. I imagine Janelle would laugh at Maddie and tell her not to worry. Janelle's a big girl. Maddie's not.

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    2. I'llfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 10, 2012 at 11:17 AM

      I really don't think people should write notes to kids under 18. And I agree w/anon 11:03 that Jeanelle's issues are not for Maddie to shoulder.

      Delete
  20. Okay so here in brief:
    I'm okay with Maddie being cool with polygamy in general, but the Kingston Group is awful. They practice violence against children and marrying your uncle or half-siblings as core tenets of their faith and therefore have huge birth defects problems.
    I am concerned that neither does Maddie seem to know or care about this nor does the TLC Sisterwives program mention it in these clips.

    Here for more:
    On the insanity of incest-as-religion in the Kingston Group:
    http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy25.html

    On violence against babies in the Kingston Group (they call it "weeding out the bad"):
    http://students.brown.edu/College_Hill_Independent/?p=140

    ReplyDelete
  21. Unrelated to the Kingston Group, but for everyone who doubted that the Darger have one kitchen, here pictures:
    http://nationalpostcomment.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/usa-mormons.jpg?w=620
    http://i.usatoday.net/yourlife/gallery/110913_polygamy/07darger-pg-horizontal.jpg

    The first is by Reuters photographer Kamil Krzaczynski and the second is as it says from USA Today, taken by photographer Douglas C. Pizac.

    And now I'm out for today. :)

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    1. I agree 100% the kingstons or "the order" are a group of people that put gods name in front of many things to brain wash, abuse, and mental damage people. along with boys being sent to work for free child labor and women being treated as rugs. Kollene is a very strong amazing woman who has had a harder life than most, she has came out to give a voice to the people being abuse and brainwash in polygamy every day. It is amazing what HOH (holding out help) has done they do truly help and change lives. kollene is one of those. I have had the pleaser of knowing her and she has shown me so much. I hope we can all take out of these that their are people being hurt by polygamy ever day and as the browns are on of the "nicest" groups i have seen and cody is "some what" of a father. we should all try and help even if it is just understanding what going on. im not here to judge what people do only voice my opinion and stand up for the people who are being hurt.

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    2. It's horrifying to even think about what goes on in these fundementalist groups, like the FLDS and Kingston Clan and others like them. I appreciate groups like Holding Out Help and all the work they do to help woman and children escape their "families." But I use the term family loosely because to me, they are not families. They are hardly wives and their "husband" is hardly a father. Your "family" is not a family if you only have two memories of even seeing your father. I don't believe that all polygamy is bad; my experience with it is certainly something that I would never change. I love my family and my life. But that's because I have an actual family. Everyone deserves to have a real family. I don't think that polygamy itself is the problem, but these groups are the reason why it should not be decrimininalized. Any plural family whos only crime is polygamy is not going to be prosecuted anyways.

      Delete
    3. @ Bellarina:
      Did you or do you live polyamory or Mormon or other religious polygamy? Just asking out of curiosity.

      There is one thing I don't doubt about either the Browns or the Darger- they love their children and provide much better environments for them than my (monogamous) parents did for me.
      So I agree with you that there can be good polygamous upbringings, absolutely. Where I disagree with you: I think the negative experiences, the cults run by men who abuse their wives and children and have huge megalomaniac ego issues are ALSO part of polygamy. Just like the Catholic church has child abuse scandals and wonderful progressive nuns protesting against war (this was just one example; the same holds for almost every other religion I am aware of- Islam, Judaism, Protestantiss, Greek or Russian Orthodox, Buddhism etc... well, maybe not some sects like Scientology or Children of God, but you get my point). The good and the bad are both a part of the same coin.

      As for "They are not really families": They are families, just single mother families. I think you need SOME form of involvement of the father that goes beyond mere insemination in order to qualify for anything other than single mother and some polygamous men both in the AUB and in the Kingston Group don't provide for their wives and/or children (just like Valerie Darger's exhusband didn't). Then you have the "megafamilies" with many many wives. Is that a real family or technically more single mothers with a fling? If you have 21 wives (like Wendell Nielsen from the FLDS), how much can you really ever be in the life of each wife, let alone your children?

      Delete
    4. You are very right, I should have been more clear; they are certainly single mother families. I just don't consider a family to be one husband, many wives all living seperately and dozens of kids who are not always raised as siblings or have access to all of their parents. So I recognize that the mothers with their children make up a family. But I don't think your family includes your father when you only have two memories of even seeing him, ect.

      And to answer your question,my husband, my sister wife and I are non religion based polygamists. We practice polygamy because it's the lifestyle choice that we choose, not because it's a fundemental belief in our religion. We have been living this way for nearly 6 years now.

      Delete
  22. Sarina is right about the abuses of polygamy. The organization that helped Kollene (the girl in the preview) has also helped a number of women from AUB (the Brown's group). That is probably why Christine was against the Brown teens being involved. Abuse is not just physical, it is also emotional, and that is pretty much built in to polygamy where women have to share one man and pretend to like it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Abuse is not just physical, it is also emotional"

      You make a good point b/c I think this is what Christine, Maddie and some of the others cannot see. They are looking at it from a purely physical standpoint. If they were more aware of emotional abuse and its impact, I'm sure they'd have no choice but to admit that polygamy is abusive, even in the Brown family.

      Delete
  23. I think it's like saying single parents are a bad idea and awful lifestyle just cause you were abused by moms boyfriends. But single parenthood isn't in itself awful.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wouldn't really compare polygamy to being a single parent. That is like comparing apples to unicorns! lol

      Delete
  24. I don't think Maddie should have been put in this situation to begin with: she is still a child. None of the children should be put in a similar situation. It is not fair to her or them.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Maddie is 17? She'll be going off to college next year? In their world, that's practically old enough to be married as a second wife. Time for her to grow up.

      Delete
    2. omg! were any of us grown up at 17?? i was married and had a baby at 19 but i STILL wasn't grown up - even tho i thought i was! lol

      nonetheless, Maddie is 17. a minor in the eyes of the law still. You don't ask kids to fix adult problems. The plyg kids are all victims of their births and are dealing with it the best they can for their ages and lack of wisdom plus their religious indoctrination re:it. Some of them are already smarter and wiser than their parents but most aren't and may sadly end up just like their emotionally and educationally stunted parents and just continue the cycle. ;'(

      I say give Maddie and these other young kids a break! Their Plyg life isn't easy - not even for the supposed "got it all together" Dargers !!

      Delete
    3. This little plyggyDecember 8, 2012 at 8:20 PM

      Adult or not she had little to do with the decision to have her coming of age filmed. I think its more of a question of whether she should be shouldered with what comes with speaking on a polarizing subject for all of the world to see. Would you encourage your teenager to go on tv and talk about your marriage? I think its sad and tacky. I just like having a goofy laugh about wet bars and toasters every once in awhile but I question if this episode will be done in a tasteful and respectful way. Sorry if I got off topic.

      Delete
    4. My point about both Maddie and Aspen is that they are both getting to an age whether they could end up in a plyg marriage before they understand what that means, not every plyg family is like the Browns.

      They need to talk to people like Koleen BEFORE their parents get them hooked up with a plyg boy. Robin Meri and Christine were drooling over the prospect of getting a Brown girl hooked up with the Dargers.

      And, yes, they are minors... but minors need to learn some truths before they make mistakes that follow them the rest of their lives. For example, many 16 and 17 year olds commit crimes and get tried as adults. We can't shield our teenage children from the facts of life just because its messy, unpleasant and complicated

      Delete
    5. ok, thanks for the clarification, mythoughtis. I gotcha now. but Kolleen is angry (rightfully so) and aggressive and black/white opinionated right now. that puts the Brown kids on the defensive about their parents. some other person older and more diplomatic person would probably be more helpful to get them critically thinking about it all. However, Maddie already seems pretty adamant about not being a plyg wife herself but of course, is naturally defensive and protective of her mom being personally attacked and labeled.

      Delete
  25. That's just plyg-tastic...moving onDecember 8, 2012 at 12:41 PM

    I think this girl is a hoax- just like most everything on this show since about the first or second season. Who gave her the money to do her hair like that? Short hair requires frequent visits to a salon- especially for an unusual style such as what she has. She has to have some kind of financial support from somewhere and I doubt she had her hair done that way this one time just for the show. The show needs ratings right now. Conflict gets ratings. Everyone is sick of the McMansion and surrogacy "conflicts" and what better way to re-gain viewer interest than to have the teens go at it with other teens in defense of their family's "lifestyle", or is it "religion"? I get confused.

    I'm not at all sure the family is getting the McMansions. I think the McMansions were an idea cooked up by TLC and IF they get the McMansions, they will soon lose them because the show is on it's way out and they will then be unable to pay for all those houses. Personally, I'm sick of the extremely extended plots of "will Meri have a baby" and "will they get the houses". It seems like (and I'm probably wrong- but it FEELS like) we've been hearing about these two issues for several seasons. Get over it already. Either these things happen or they don't. Tell us and move on because after this long, I'm losing interest fast. (I'm also sick of the show's editing- I hate being teased in by a trailer and then watching the whole show only to find out they didn't include that short trailer clip in the actual show. Bait and hook. I hate that.)

    I think TLC has run out of plot lines and they are milking it for all it's worth before they shut the show down. It's quite possible that the Darger family will get their own show as the Brown family phases out. Who knows. I think if TLC doesn't come up with something entirely new and interesting, the show (this one and/or the Darger one) are going down.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. I don't think it costs much to do your hair like that. All you have to do is have a friend who knows how to cut hair and you could even dye it yourself (or with help from a friend). She may even be training to be beautician herself--a sensible choice for someone who needs to support herself right away and can't afford college. If so, she has plenty of classmates who can pratice on her...or if she isn't in training herself, she may know someone else who is training.

      Delete
    2. "Who gave her the money to do her hair like that? Short hair requires frequent visits to a salon- especially for an unusual style such as what she has."
      -I know lots of people with that kind of hair style and cut that do it THEMSELVES or have a friend help with boxed hair dye and it ends up looking great. IMO, her hair is not a good reason to suspect she is a "hoax". In my personal and professional opinion, the strong feelings she portrays are very much real and very much her own.

      Delete
    3. Definitely NOT a hoax. I know Kollene personally. She was helped by Holding out HELP to get on her feet when she left the Kingstons and has since been training at a Beauty School so she will be able to support herself. She's perfectly able to do her own hair, and if it's a bit wild, more power to her.

      Delete
    4. I am pretty sure Kolleen works in a salon, she did go to beauty school.

      Delete
    5. I know 15-year-olds that can do that to their hair on their own. No beautician's license required, just a lot of time, patience and Aqua Net. :)

      that said I would totally suck at doing that.

      Delete
    6. i, personally, think her hair is cute and representative of her "free to be me" newly found freedom of expression. she's young and finding herself which is perfectly normal. YAY!! shes' NORMAL!!! You go girl, KOLLEEN!!

      Delete
    7. My hair is very very fried! its short cuz i fried it for 2 years by myself, ive been to a real salon twice in my life for that hair, back when i had an income. I actually use Aussie instant freeze and i dont use alot cuz my hair has alot of grit do to lack of oil... just really need to rat it and lay down the fly aways. My hair doesnt really grow fast so i dont really do anything with it.. . i mean do my roots look done? And i Went to beauty school to be a Master Esthetician so i do skin and laser! :) thanx for the challenge mwahahahaha!

      Delete
    8. KoKo - you're good, sweetie. i think you've got a good fighting spirit and a kind and loving soul. just be who you are and dont' worry any more about judgment by others. hugs and best wishes in your growth of wisdom gained over time and personal experience. we all have our lessons to learn.

      Delete
    9. Lay off the kid KoKo. A lot of the Brown stuff is a hot mess of fake but before doubting a persons credibility, check them out. I looked her up and she is 'real'. She seems an intelligent articulate young lady and hopefully will be able to full fill her desires and potentials as a human being now she has broken free from the cult of fundamentalist Mormonism. MORMONISM IS A CULT IN EVERY WAY SHAPE AND FORM, but can any of us try and imagine giving up our core beliefs if we found them to be lies, half-truths and just plain crap? That must be incredibly difficult, could you walk out of your life? We shouldn't diss a young girl, even if she isn't a Brown, she is still a child.

      Delete
    10. I don't doubt Kollene's story. Even though I believe it's justifiable, her anger is far too palpable. She mentioned that her father was very powerful in the Kingston group. She wasn't by chance the underage teen who was force to marry her uncle (David Kingston) was she? Btw, David Kingston only served four years of his 10 year sentence for incest. Now as far as Kollene's hair is concerned, I don't think it would be that difficult or expensive to bleach it and style it. My 18-year-old niece has done some whacky stuff with her hair over the past few years. All my niece needed was a Born Blonde hair color/bleaching kit and lots of AquaNet. LOL!! (Nothing was as wild as when my niece bleached her hair and colored it bright orange/pink, though. Yikes!!)

      Delete
  26. I did a quick search on the Kingston group last night because I'd never heard of them and ran across Flora Jessop's site where she had PDF files of readers. This one is my favourite- Sisters are Eternal Friends. Just in case you ever wondered just WHAT they were learning at ALTA accademy...

    http://www.childpro.org/2007/documents/Sisters%20are%20Eternal%20Friends.pdf

    Can't make it go all on one line- sorry!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Ok. I am very proud of Kollene, glad she got of her abusive home, and am grateful that HOH was there to help her.

    I am also proud of Maddie and the other Brown teens. Polygamy is a normal lifestyle for them. They have never been in a monogamous family.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. exactly CM and why they all need to be cut some slack. No one here has walked in their shoes.

      Delete
  28. Run, Plyglets, Run!December 8, 2012 at 4:41 PM

    I discovered this blog several weeks ago, and now it's taking up WAY too much of my time!!! ;) Been a watcher of SW since the beginning. Still haven't really overcome the initial totally-creeped-out feeling, but I can't look away.

    Anyway, I have a million thoughts on this show which I may get around to posting in the fullness of time. Right now (because I have real work I should be doing instead of skiving off here) I'll confine myself to this observation:

    I noticed that the Holding Out Help featured in tomorrow's episode is the same organization which held a 5K run fundraiser in September. This is the run Meri participated in (she tweeted about it). In a news story for the event, Meri was interviewed, being a celebrity participant and all, saying she supports the org because they offer neutral assistance. They don't encourage people to leave just help those who come to them whether they have decided to leave or stay in their ply community.

    Given that Meri supports this org enough to raise funds for it (I assume she had sponsors for her run), why was her 'mini me,' Mariah, not one of the teens on this trip?

    Also, I totally understand Maddie's defense of her parents. For teens (and I have a couple myself), it's fine for them to criticize their parents but they won't let anyone else do it. And, to be fair, from her perspective, she's not unloved or abused - hey, she's 16 and no one's made her marry her cousin - she can see the good parts of being a plyg child. It's like saying I don't hate my life but I don't want to be my mom. She's also been subject to all the brainwashing. I wonder if she feels she's not 'strong enough' to be a sister wife.

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    1. according to the website for the 5K, it was a $20 per participant flat entry fee (with some discounts for kids and families). It wasn't a pledge event like 3 Day Walk, AIDS Ride, or Team in Training.

      Meri didn't have to do ANY fundraising. i would faint if she signed up for one of the pledge type events because generally (At least the larger well known ones) set a minimum pledge amount which is (I believe) generally over $1,000 per participant and whatever you don't raise you make up the difference yourself. I don't see Meri doing a helluva lot of fundraising. Although Im sure she thought that she was doing the organization a big promo fave by participating. Maybe she got out of paying the $20. in exchange.

      http://holdingouthelp.org/5k/

      Delete
    2. i agree, DJ. otherwise, i'm sure Meri would be self-congratulating what she'd actually raised for the event.

      Delete
    3. Run, Plyglets, Run!December 8, 2012 at 11:01 PM

      Ahhh.... Only $20. And perhaps even waived for the promo value. We're right back to shallow and self-serving, aren't we? Smh. Wonder if she got the sister wives to chip in $5 a piece.

      Delete
  29. There was an article yesterday in the DailyMail online about 3 females from Colorado City who left the Jeffs group recently. There is probably the same article in the SaltLakeCitytribune as well. They did claim abuse, and noted that Jeff's brother had passed along the news that only a select few men would be allowed to procreate, threw out many more men, instituted further measures of no texts, phones, etc but much more strict than before. They were all things that had been noted on this blog, but this time told by 3 who left.

    ReplyDelete
  30. So sad on all accounts. Abuse everywhere!

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  31. I did not know that the Browns believe a lot of the Warren Jeffs evidence was made up or embellished. That makes them look even more sad.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do they believe that? Or do they 'just' believe that the trigger of the Texas raid was made up? That would be true, it was a pretense and the original girl who said she was abused was a hoax; that is however a technicality since the authorities did find several real cases of sexual abuse of children, including a girl who was first sexually assaulted by an older brother and then married off at age 12.

      Delete
    2. Yes, they do believe a lot of the Warren Jeffs evidence was made up along with The Dargers:
      http://lovetimesthree.com/vicki-and-valerie-interview/

      Delete
  32. Although I hold nothing against her, I understand why she see's the world white and black and that she has been through a lot. But that "because I have a brain" right after Maddie said her sister wanted to be a sisterwives was uncalled for. Even though we can all see that the brown woman are unhappy, and that Kody can be mean with his words, they are not abused. To say that they are abused are insulting to woman who suffer abuse. Because it waters the term down. I think even though the Browns has failed to show that the polygamist life stile can bring joy, they have showed that polygamy doesn't equal abuse.

    ReplyDelete
  33. What exactly is your definition of abuse then? I'm not the only one here that clearly sees that the Brown women are being abused by Kody and Meri. Yes, abused. Definite emotional abuse and neglect. Possible physical abuse that is being covered up. Maybe you think it's not "serious enough" to be labeled abuse but that doesn't mean it isn't abuse. It's not "watering down" the word abuse. IMO, I think Kolleen's anger and her comment about "having a brain" was most certainly acceptable because she has been through hell, sees others being abused, and NOONE SEEMS TO GIVE A DAMN! I'd be pissed and use strong language too! She's probably hoping her strong words and obvious strong feelings will help wake some of these people up! Good job Kolleen!

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    Replies
    1. I agree that abuse can be psychological. I don't think including emotional abuse in the term waters it down, but clearly I don't see what you see on the show. I think Kody can be very insensitve and make some cruel comments but he is not abusive.

      As for Kolleen; like I said, I get why she said it. I get why she is angry, and she has every right to be. And that she is young. I want to make it very clear that I'm not agaist Kolleen or unimpressed by her abillty to break free in any way!!I just felt that the sentence was uncalled for, imo even if you been to hell and back it's not OK to take it out on others. Sometimes understandable? yes! Acceptable? No.

      Delete
    2. i just see her talking to the teens in straight teen talk like they do. Sure it might sound harsh but she's young too and just strongly voicing her opinion based on her physically and emotionally abusive experience of years in polygamy - without any diplomacy cause she's still in full raw hurt/anger mode. I, personally, think this isn't particularly helpful to do this publicly but then again, it creates drama which is what gives "reality" shows their ratings. Also, it's high time to hear the ugly side of polygamy straight from the horse's mouth to counter all the "beauty and joys" b.s. of it that's been being sold to us by Browns and Dargers.

      I just think they should have KoKo speaking her mind to the adults and not the Brown teens but then maybe she's still intimidated and has PTSD when dealing with adults and their self-righteous talk about polygamy. But i don't see anything but it causing the teens to defend their parents even if they don't particularly agree with polygamy itself. But like i say - it's all about the drama for the ratings. So, take it at that face value.

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    3. I imagine the produces told KoKo not to hold back in her assertiveness and anger snarks. They're paying her and she's probably happy to oblige. I do hate to see Maddie crying cause you know she has seen the pain/depression/disrespect/and total advantage taken constantly of her mother over the years. It's why she has no interest in embracing polygamy herself. She's taken on the pain of her momma.

      I'm sure all the teens hold resentment towards Kody as a father (except for only child Mariah) and the girls have a good chance of turning out just as emotionally needy and manipulative as Meri, Robyn and Christine. Janelle has such low self-esteem but wasn't raised in polygamy but still has some unresolved lifelong emotional issues eating at her.

      This family sucks mostly because this polygamous lifestyle just sucks. I don't even think for one minute it's any more emotionally healthy for the boys raised in it either.

      I seriously wonder what the state of Day-un is these days. I've noticed he's grown a couple of feet both in height and width lately. He can't possibly be getting the extra time and attention he requires either.

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    4. Actually the producer came to me and told me to stop being so rude about what i had to say because he was afraid that they would not take me to vegas. the producer loved me and the kids were kinda scared i would rip into kody... i was going to but since everyone kept telling me to be nice, every thought in my mind was negative and thats why i didnt talk the whole time we were touring the houses... so many times i wanted to bitch out at kody but they all told me to calm down so i just glared alot... And as for getting paid. $0 I did this as a voice! i just wanted to get out there and exploit the pain and abuse thats going on and to let everyone know about it and that there is help if they need it... and the show sought me out.. This whole thing was 100% volunteer work.

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    5. Emotional, mental, and verbal abuse leave scars that can be much deeper and longer lasting than any physical abuse. I tend to agree with Kollene. She knows what abuse is. She knows that polygamy is no way to live. I'm glad that she's using her brain. She was very blunt with Madison, but not out of line. Sometimes, people need to be told the cold, hard truth without any sugar coating. We can all sit here and say 'to each his own'. No matter how open minded we might want to presume ourselves to be, I think very few of us truly accept that this lifestyle is healthy for anyone, especially the women and children. There is nothing healthy or natural about sharing a spouse. Based on next week's previews, I believe we are going to see what we already know is true. The Browns can dress 'normally', live among the 'Gentiles', etc, but are no better at living polygamy than anyone else.

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    6. Hepburn Hilton, a steady diet of insensitivity and cruel comments IS abuse. Been there, and the scars are deeper.

      I prefer the frankness of KoKo to dressing up polygamy as something other than perverse. I agree with New Shoes. Sugar coating a pile of crap makes it no less a pile of crap. Kollene's delivery was based on her own experience. Sure, I wish people could always be sunny, but that is not real. Maddie is given latitude for her age, which is fair. Kollene should be given the same consideration, IMO. I do wish she hadn't been hoodwinked by Krody, but that's certainly not her fault, he's just proficient at lying.

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    7. KoKo......at the end you said that seeing their family you sort of changed your mind that not all polygs were bad...something to that affect. Did you mean that? I actually screamed out BS when I heard that coming out of your mouth. Kody is NEVER around I found it funny he was there "acting" like he cared about his family.

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    8. I'llfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM

      KoKo I hope you know we all love and support you. Your hair looks amazing and so does your make up.

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    9. I agree with anon 2:41 pm. I was in a similar situation as a teenager and hearing strong words and feelings about it from a peer may have altered my decision to stay. Maybe I would have become defensive and not done anything differently, or maybe it would have struck a chord with me and I would have done things differently. I certainly would NOT tell her to water down her strong voice just to make others less uncomfortable. Hepburn, THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH POLYGAMY. Stay sweet, dumb it down, water it down, don't make a fuss. What the hell? You are part of the problem in my opinion. Let her say what she wants, how she wants to because we all know "the other side" is going to try and drown her out (like douche bag Kody did) so LET HER be a forceful 1 against 1 million....IMO.

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    10. To anon 11.43: Why am I a part of the problem? Because I think its possible to have a strong opinon and voice without putting other people down in the prosess? I never said don't say what you mean to please others, I just said that there are ways to make your voice heard without calling other people stupid....

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    11. Anony 11:43 - please review the rules. Do not attack another poster. Agree to disagree. Thanks!

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    12. KoKo - thanks for coming here and giving "the rest of the story" clarification. it all makes sense! hugs again to you, my dearest brave and strong child. You're gonna make it - I know it!! XOX

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  34. Tonight will be interesting. I hope the teens got counseling on how to deal with others before thrown in this situation. I would assume they haven't. Why on earth are they throwing Maddie into this? Of course the ones that are leaving are going to be angry. Any counselor should not take offense to what is said, and I have a feeling the kids will, not really able to handle the situation. I feel for them.
    Oh boy, what a mess.

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  35. Kody is absolutely abusive ..not physical at all but emotional abuse from a passive aggressive narcissist can do as much damage to an individual and over long period of time can be devastating. I think it is very evident in Meri. Although it is a tv show these are real people who will have to go on with life after tlc is gone. we wish them all well but it may be a tough road.

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    1. Meri is also abusive with her bullying as well as she holds the cards as being the only legal wife and she makes sure everyone remembers that w/her actions. Robyn is a passive/aggressive manipulator. I'm sure that all of Christine and Janelle's kids can't really stand either of those two women along w/their mothers.

      The kids will still love Kody no matter what cause he's their dad - right or wrong. They just might not like everything he does tho.

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  36. Meri's the most worthless of all in the Sister Wife dept. All she cares about is Mariah and Kody and she just gives lip service about her love for her bonus kids and sister wives. Her main concern next to Mariah is "what's Lover doing?" and "is he still devoted to me first and foremost over the other wives?" No way does she practice the religious commitment of serving and loving everyone in your plyg family. But then that's more common than not based on all my reading and research. Human nature that's next to impossible to overcome for the large majority. Polygamy sucks. Period.

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    1. I found Meri's reactions on tonight's episode very interesting. All of the other wives cried over hearing the kids' stories of abuse. Not once did Meri shed a tear. I know everything is edited, but I find it interesting that she cries over that dang wet bar, but when these kids are sharing their gut wrenching stories, she's stoic.

      She's in the "religion" for Kody and Kody alone.

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    2. Meri only sheds tears of self-pity.

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    3. I found it funny that not a tear was shed by any of the "sisterwives" when Robyn talked (and cried) about the abuse that she experienced in her prior marriage. Nothing!!! They all just sat there and stared at her. Holy cow! These women have no sincere emotion in their bodies for each other...next time I hear "The benefits of having a sisterwife" one more time!!! Ugh!!!!

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    4. DJ said: "Meri only sheds tears of self-pity."

      Isn't that the truth?!!! Just like Sobbin Robyn, Meri uses her tears to garner sympathy!! Christine might be sheltered and shallow, but at least her tears are genuine. I was really impressed that Janelle let her guard down. When she cries, you know that there's real emotion going on inside her.

      And Mock Jobs is right. Meri has more of an attachment to her wetbar than the any of the kids in this family.

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    5. LOL - i wonder how often Meri drunk texts the other wives at night? and Grody, too, when he's with them and not her?

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    6. I'llfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 10, 2012 at 11:32 AM

      No one has any *genuine* empathy for anyone else in that household -- they are all just fighting to get a piece of Kody and they know their sisters are just using tears for attention so they don't even blink anymore when someone starts crying. They are all overcome with their own unmet needs and have no room in their hearts to think about anyone else.

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  37. Spoiler
    Wasn't it ironic that right after trying to be the happy face of polygamy, the preview for next week was Christine saying she didn't sign up for her kids to see Kody only once a week?
    What a motley bunch.

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    1. That was a very telling statement, and remember she was raised in polygamy ....might the follow the dagers and actually live like a family?

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    2. Ohhh one more thing....not only is a wet bar an essential for Mari, but french doors as well ....

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    3. @TAR: LOL!!! I picked up on that, too. I wonder why Meri has such an aversion to a sliding door? Maybe I read too much into it, but I really believe that Meri wants to take as much from the other wives, particularly Janelle, as she possibly can. The more Janelle gives up, the more Mean Meri insists on having.

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  38. Mister Sister- I was thinking the same thing. Wasn't Kody just telling them how he tried/tries to be a good dad yet in the preview for next week Christine says her kids complain he is never around and they have gone over a week without seeing him!!! Yeah good dad. Then it makes me wonder what the Heck? Does Christine not get every 4th day anymore? Or does Kody only swing in after the kids are in bed?

    Oh and the preview for next week I laughed out loud when they showed Kody sitting down with Meri's plans and he says "you are right at budget and you are only on page one". Yeah goes to show that Meri obviously has no regard for the budget. Then he says "let's get rid of the french doors" and she says "I said from the beginning they had to be french doors. I don't want sliding doors" I was like OMG really Meri, get over yourself. You got your stupid wetbar and your hobby room let it go. I doubt she budged at all though. Selfish bitch.

    As for tonight's episode, I don't want to say too much and spoil it for those on the West Coast but I thought it was a really good episode. At least we now know without a doubt, where Logan stands on the issue of whether or not he will live polygamy. I look forward to discussing it more when the appropriate thread comes up.

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  39. I thought this was one of the most honest episodes thus far. I think it really cracked the shell of polygamy and then one could tell when it hit too close to home for the adults because they had to go back to the script of them being a "good" poly family. For Robyn this marriage is less abusive than her first one, therefore, she thinks it to be good and working, for Janelle and Christine you could tell that every once in a while something was said and they agreed it to be abusive but then they had to school themselves back into the "party-line". I really hope that the adults continue to allow the children to find their way and make their own decisions regarding their religion or future lifestyle. I hope the other "guest" teens continue to grow and to help others out of their bad situations.

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  40. Ok, processing from tonight.

    I'm having a hard time believing that Christine and crew were really so unaware of the horrific abuse that happens in fundamentalist cults. They have newspapers - even if they didn't believe everything they read, it shouldn't have been such a shock.

    I was a bit surprised when Meri gave the 'we should give them the benefit of the doubt' comment and Robyn hit back with 'that's what everyone did with my abuser'. Hummmm.... honeymoon is over in that relationship.

    I'm more facinated by the previews. Christine said 'if we were four different families, finances would be handled differently' and then we see Meri and Kody trying to slash extra with Meri fighting it. Apparently, if what the previews show is remotely right, Christine finds her voice soon.

    What's the deal with Lehi - seems Meri and Kody make a visit....and Kody digs a hole....and cries....?

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    1. Kody has mentioned the abuse in other communities before. I don't know how Christine could not have known how bad it was unless she never ever pays attention to news/gossip. I'll tell you what though, I'm sick of Robyn making everything all about her and her poor woe is me, my last marriage/being a single mom (insert sob story here) stories. I think someone either needs sympathy or has to seriously deal with her past.

      I must have missed the part about Lehi. Hmm wonder what that is about? Maybe they were digging up a time capsule or something. I too look forward to next week. I hope stuff starts getting real with Christine voicing her opinion and Kody finally telling Meri, enough is enough.

      Oh I don't doubt for a moment if they were 4 different families finances would be handled differently. No doubt about that. They have 4 different opinions on how money should be spent so of course they would all do it there own way if they could.

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    2. Yeah, I can't wait for next week either. Where's Kody been, if he hasn't been to Christine's? I presume he's been with his bedroom wife, Robyn, and Mrs. Wetbar.

      I said in another post that I find it really difficult to believe that Christine had no idea what was going on in other polygamist sects. I don't buy that one at all, especially considering that her own grandfather had under age wives. I just don't get Christine sometimes. Does she not own a TV? C'mon. There have been too many documentaries and books written that cover the abuse in the polygamist community. Someone on here said that Christine doesn't wear rose colored glasses; instead, Christine wears a blindfold. I couldn't have described it better. I really want to know what the hole is all about....

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  41. I can not believe that the Brown's know as little as they portray about the abuse rampant in the polygamous world. Don't they watch the news? Bit disingenuous, to say the least. Still waiting for a clear explanation as to why a man needs more than one wife.

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  42. As much as I like Christine's personality on the show, I'm not convinced she reads newspapers much. I think she likes living in her own little bubble where she can pretend bad things aren't real. IMO.

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    1. I think Christine is probably the most absorbed in the fatih and the fears since her family was high in their church and her own grandfather was arrested for polygamy so I can see why she has such irrational fears, they have been ingrained her probably since birth. It's not right, but it's all she knows.

      I'm not sure they rest of the Brown's are as "brainwashed" since we know that 2 of them (Janelle & Kody) did not grow up in the faith. Honestly it seems they pick and chose what parts of the faith they follow and which they don't. They had not been indoctrined since birth. I'm guessing if Christine had her way her kids would be as "brainwashed" as she is. I do think Christine lives in her own little world where everything is rainbows and butterflies. I feel as the rose colored glasses become more and more clear we will see more and more of a breakdown in Chrsitine.

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  43. Again, these "plygs are hypocrites They shed tears for abuses about other plyg groups being unfair and evil. YET; they and their religion do not recognize, accept or allow people of color to be baptized and they are not welcome into their religion because their leaders say it's from god.
    Now the Brown's want the world to accept them and yet they won't accept people of color into their religion is outrageous and insulting. They are Hypocrites to the nth degree!!

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  44. I agree with you, Anonymous 10:42 as to Christine's credibility. As I was watching her feign shock over men being "such bastards" all I could do was roll my eyes. I don't remember the specific talk show they were on, but it was a similar circumstance. Kids who had escaped polygamous groups were also on th show, and Christine made a great show of being sympathetic to their stories. When they spoke at the panel discussion discussion in Boston, tears were shed over "bad" polygamists, as opposed to the blissful existence they lead. The icing on the cake was when she presented the WHAT IF. Oh, brother. If she had contacted this group when she and Krody were having trouble (You mean this morning?) she might have been talked into leaving??? I've always liked Christine, but she totally lost me on this episode.

    Another thing that really struck a nerve with me was Stephen's story. The whole "lost boys" aspect of some polygamist groups is alarming. These kids are ousted with no education or skills to function in the real world. Simple arithmetic makes for another aspect that is just b.s. It stands to reason that many boys are going to be s.o.l. when it comes to getting ONE wife, much less multiples. Add to that pervs who claim dozens of wives for themselves and these kids are doomed. Too much competition for the geezers, so I'm willing to bet that one infraction, as with Stephen, is an excuse to kick them out. To be fair, that is one thing I can't see Krody doing. Nonetheless, the numbers aren't going to work, even within his brand of polygamy. I find it terribly sad and troublesome.

    After listening to these kids' stories, seeing the tease for next week's show made me want to throw a brick through the television. French doors vs. sliding, seriously? Meri might possibly be the most vapid woman on earth. The preview alone negated everything they said this week. smdh

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    1. I love the use of the word, 'vapid' very apt description.

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    2. When Smith first started "the principle" he would have the young Mormon "missionaries" bring back young wife material. they were not allowed to marry them themselves. The LDS likes to say that it was plural marriage was necessary to take care of the women , but records show otherwise.. there was no huge disparity in the numbers.. In fact Smith actually would marry other mens wives.. as well as sisters , and young girls.. He was a pervert, and those that follow him have earned that title.
      BTW polygamy has never been removed from LDS doctrine.. it is only suspended. That is because they believe their gods have many wives . If the laws against plural marriage is ever changed (like gay marriage) They will have a "revelation" that the "principle" is to be practiced again .

      Too many boys means fewer young wives for the leadership, so they have to go... Poor children...

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  45. I thought Christine's comment about Social Workers "tear families apart" was a little overstated. That is the farthest from the truth. If it weren't for social workers, so many children would remain living in abusive situations, just like the kids depicted in this episode. It sounded very ignorant and might make children, who are already vulnerable, not trust that they have a way out. It's unfortunate when people who have influence in the media make such blanket statements.

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    1. I have to agree with Christine on this one. As a former foster child and foster parent, I have a very different view of social workers. I have dealt with too many of them to count. A few are really well meaning and do their best to keep families together or at least are concerned with the best interest of the child. However, that has not been my overall experience.

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    2. @ New Shoes:
      It is not the job of Social Workers to "keep families together" WHATSOEVER. It is the job of Social Workers to prevent and/or stop sexual and other physical abuse and torture of children by the children's parents or caretakers or other relatives.

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    3. As a former Foster Parent - they indeed have the goal of keeping the families together, getting help for the parent and child and reuniting them. Often the children are reunited when the parent is not ready.

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    4. Thank you Kat and Mister Sister. As a Social Worker I was speechless and you have given me a voice :-) Couldn't have said it better.

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    5. Again, I emphatically state the I do not believe that all social workers are misguided and/or vindicitive people. I believe that most people who major in Social Work go into it with the best intentions, Kat. However, I really do believe that people who are employed in this career burnout more quickly than people who choose a different career path. Also, I have to agree with Mister Sister. I have seen social workers make recommendations to place a child with a parents, who are not bad persons, but clearly are not ready for the responsibility of full time parenting. However, I have also witnessed children being separated from parents who were more than capable of caring for their children, but the social worker's prejudices towards the parents' religion, world view, type of employment, age, marital status, socio-economic level, level of intelligence, race, etc clouded particular social workers' judgment. And thus, family bonds were damaged. In some cases these parents and children were separated forever. That is an unsurmountable travesty.



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  46. They keep showing Meri complaining about the different aspects of the house, but they never show Christine, Janelle or Robin saying much of anything (except for Robyn mentioning the "hubby" room last week). You mean to tell me that Robyn isn't in there fighting for all that Meri has and more? I think she's probably being just as b*tchy about it, and TLC has just edited it to make Meri look like the bad guy.

    Of course, I'm not defending Meri because she has gone from being my husband's favorite wife to the one that he finds to be disgusting, ugly and selfish. (I never liked her). Anyway, what kind of a person is she to demand a wet bar when there are so many sweet children to take care of? I would never want a wet bar and I am far from being religious. My husband says that Kody probably wanted other wives just because he couldn't stand to be around Meri 24/7! I don't know, but with every episode, she is sure getting wide. The last thing she needs is a wet bar because she needs to lay off the alcohol and lose some weight! I think she looks bigger than Christine. She needs to stop wearing those shirts that were ill-fitting 40 pounds ago, and grow up. They are just gross. I stopped wearing shirts with spaghetti straps when I was in my 20's. Wearing a shirt underneath an "undershirt" is not modest. It makes you look fat even if you aren't because that type of shirt is not meant to be worn that way.

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    1. Meri is the legally married wifey....Kody must keep her happy or he may lose half of everything...well, TLC everything. A divorce would be a disaster for Kody financially.

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    2. Well if we go back to last week's episode, Meri stated herself that she has a 'strong voice' (and I think she said 'loud voice' as well). So that translates to 'I'm heard' and in this case, everyone watching hears her opinions and housing demands and not those of the other wives who look humble and unpresumptuous by comparison.

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  47. Anon 12:08- I agree with you! Christine's statement about social workers confirms Kolleen's thought that the Browns are brainwashed. And it was thoughtless of her to say that social workers destroy families. Unfortunately, that is how she was raised to think. Fear of the outside world makes isolation easy. Funny how they keep trying to convince us they are not a cult.

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  48. How blind and naive does Christien have to be to claim she did not know that men could be such bastards. When in my opinion what Cody said about her and the nachos and how he was not attracted to her but repulsed, and he said ths on national TV mind you. IMO that certainly qualifies Cody as an asshole in his own class. I mean I'm just saying

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  49. Well didn't this episode tape before Meri ran in that race? That race was only in August I think.

    I can understand Christine not knowing of the extreme abuse in the Kingston Clan. It's such a closed off group where everyone is related to keep blood lines pure. It's not her sect. I mean I wouldn't know everything that goes in my religion unless I looked it up. But she ovbiously knew of abuse in the FLDS, even if the Browns think that the amount of abuse was blown out of proportion.

    For once I was actually happy to hear Robyn talk, when Meri tried to down play it all and Robyn was like "we need to acknolwedge that it happens and stop giving everyone the benefit of the doubt over and over again."

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    1. IN my readings and research, I've never known any of the other plyg sects to not know about the other rival ones. I'm not buying that Christine is ignorant of the Kingston clan whatsoever.

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  50. Just when this show couldn't get any worse it has sunk further into the abyss. Its as if these kids half been through he'll and gotten thru just to betthrown back in. Why was it so important to the adults to try to show the "good" side of plyg to these kids. The thing wrong with what Christine said is that she met some kids just like these a year ago on Anderson cooper. And the topper was when grody kody ogled. Koleen and said that he would qualify as her husband. He tried to say it with disgust but it dint quite come off that way to me.

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    1. It bothered me as well that Kody felt he had to prove the teens and their views wrong and didn't validate the teens' experience. He wasn't willing to really hear what they had to say because he had to show how much better his family was and how polygamy in his family was great.

      Except emotional abuse runs rampant in the Brown family. I don't believe for a second that Kody is a good dad: he's not there for the kids (posting things on twitter doesn't count as being there for them). There just isn't enough Kody to go around for all of the kids and wives and that's a function of the Mormon polygamist lifestyle. The kids and wives all end up neglected (at best) and emotionally abused (at worst) - and that's if there's no physical abuse.

      I liked Kollene (KoKo) a lot! I loved her outspokenness and her honesty. I also loved her hair and makeup (especially her eye makeup). To the person above who said that it costs too much money to keep hair like that, I know otherwise. My niece is just a bit younger than Kollene is and she and her friends, none of whom have any money, can cut and dye their hair like that themselves.

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    2. IwillfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 10, 2012 at 5:12 PM

      Haremhater, I noticed too that Kody's words didn't match his face when he commented that Kolleen is old enough to be a wife. Wonder why he's thinking about her being his wife-it's not like we were all wondering!? Good thing she gave him the mean stares, so he wouldn't fool himself into thinking he had a chance with her LOL.

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    3. I wonder how soon Mariah's going to be married off? She's all for it and Meri and Kody are all for getting married when you're 18. wonder if they'll feel any different about that since it's THEIR precious Mariah!

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    4. Chantelle said,"It bothered me as well that Kody felt he had to prove the teens and their views wrong and didn't validate the teens' experience. He wasn't willing to really hear what they had to say because he had to show how much better his family was and how polygamy in his family was great."

      I found Kody's attitude completely bewildering, too. Kollene needs to be validated not re-educated by the Kody Brown Brand of Polygamy. I do not doubt for one moment that Kollene's life in the Kingston group was one of isolation and abuse. As usual, Kody was utterly insensitive to the emotional needs and very real experiences of another. Why doesn't this surprise me? (Eyes rolling.) Of course Kody thinks polygamy is eutopia. He reaps all the benefits and rewards, but never suffers the consequences of his polygamist lifestyle. When it comes to polygamy, what's not to like for Kody? He gets to have a different woman every night. He never has to deal with the day-to-day challenges of childrearing, paying bills, or working out a family budget. If one of his ladies is angry, sad, upset, pre-menstrual, stressed, or otherwise emotionally distraught, he can just choose to go seek the favors one of his other concubines.

      Kollene mentioned that she began to see Kody as a 'father' and a 'husband'. All Kollene got to experience with her three day visit with the Browns is them on their absolute best behavior. She, like us, is not privy to the real gritty details of life in the Brown Family Circus.

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  51. I cannot believe that Christine is so naive. When she tried so much to feign that dramatic look with I didn't...I didn't know that men...gasp....could be such bastards. Give me a fucking break. She is all the time making sure the audience doesn't confuse the browns with that group of polygs associated with jeff what's his name. If she wants so much to distinguish her sect of polygs from Warren's sect, then she must know he took child brides and that the mistreated women and....And Robyn...give me a break. She has to turn every drama back to herself. Here we have these children telling their stories and on the couch Robyn has to go bonkers and start bringing on the water works and the giant chin quiver and talk about her own abuse. GIVE ME A BREAK. I have always disliked Meri and Robyn, but Chirstine is slowly making me think she is nothing but a fake idiot who wants to seem like she is looking through the world with rose colored glasses when in reality, she is looking at the polygs world and seeing what she wants to see.

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    1. I'llfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 10, 2012 at 11:38 AM

      Well said 10:01.

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  52. I just can't believe that Christine isn't aware of the darker side of polygamist groups. Anyone who turned on the news during the whole YFZ raid and the subsequent media firestorm over Warren Jeffs would have some clue as to what goes on in some of the more extreme fundamentalist groups. Even if she never watched the news or read a newspaper in her life, her own family history is loaded with examples of "bad" polygamists. Her own grandfather Rulon C. Allred was leader/prophet of the AUB and had as many as 16 wives. Some, I'm sure were decades younger than he was. He was gunned down in cold blood by order of Ervil LeBaron, the psycopathic leader of a rival sect. How can she POSSIBLY say she didn't know this kind of extreme behavior of some polygamist sects existed. I'm not buying it. it seemed as though she was crying "oh no, us poor little nice plygs, we didn't know ANYTHING about how cruel those others are." Baloney!!

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    1. And Ervil was her great Uncle- I call Bogus on Christine's claims.

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    2. Christine is an actress. Have to agree with Meri on that one.

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    3. Did anyone hear Janelle say when they were eating breakfast with the HOH kids that she and Christine basically shared kitchens when the kids were little? Or maybe she said the shared "out of each other's kitchens". Basically, it sounded like they got along well in reference to kitchens and probably could do so now. Just further confirmation that so many of this family's problems seem to be instigated by the First Wife.

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    4. I noticed that too! Meri isn't the only one who can be passive aggressive. And I'm pretty sure the kitchen thing is pretty scripted. But I'll admit, I laughed when she said it! Nicely played.

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  53. I can't be the ONLY person who got squicked out when Kody pointed out that he would be the one marrying Koko if she were still in the Kingston Group...if I was Koko and had heard that I would be staying as far away from his slimy butt as I could...eww. It almost sounded like wishful thinking on his part...

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    1. I totally caught that as well. Why did he not bring that up in general. As in all 3 girls. Why did he single out that one girl?

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  54. He simply said "where she's from I'm qualified to be her husband" like meaning of course she thinks diff.

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    1. Yes, I did state that's what Kody said - in different words.

      The fact that he felt the need to bring it up...IMO it wasn't necessary. I definitely got a squicky feeling.

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    2. IwillfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 10, 2012 at 5:16 PM

      I agree DakotaJustice. Too bad for him that he didn't keep that thought to himself, since we all can see exactly what he was thinking about when he commented about Kolleen being the age where she could be his wife.

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    3. And here is where you have the problem. Let's give Kody the "benefit of the doubt" to quote the couch scene. Let's say that right now, he is pretty disgusted by the idea. But put him in an environment where he is not only raised to believe that is his destiny, but he is actively ENCOURAGED to do this. He is rewarded for doing this in his community. History of polygamous cultures shows that even decent and honorable men who are unhappy about it will do this, and willingly. Not all of them, but many. Too many. And within two generations, you have set the seeds where there isn't even any thought that this shouldn't be done.

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  55. We live in a monogamous culture, so of course we are weirded out a by polygamy. I personally would never be okay living like that, but I'm not against it. Yes I am against the cults and warren jeffs and stuff like that, but the browns and the dargers no. I mean they seem like good people. If my kids wanted to hang out with their kids I would say sure go ahead and not be freaked out by the way they live. There not doing drugs, infact they are more uptight than I am. I mean their children are far from abused and acutally have really good hearts. I mean look at how madison reacted? she was hurt and concerned for children who were abused. Do I want a sister wife? no. but if you do so be it.

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    1. It's against the law and who are we to assume that because the kids are good kids, that they aren't suffering abuse or neglect?

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    2. There are a lot of states where cohabitating, adultery and fornication are still technically against the law too. Why aren't those people paying fines or going to jail? If the only crime a family is committing is polygamy than I think there are a lot bigger crimes that people should be concerned about. Abuse of any kind is wrong and should be taken care of. But honestly, saying that polygamy is wrong just because it's illegal doesn't make much of an argument, to me at least. Lot's of things have been against the law at some point or another and often it takes a test case to make the point that it shouldn't be illegal.

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    3. We have become a culture that say it is somehow wrong not to approve of someone else's "choices" ...Nothing is sin anymore, nothing is worth condemning... There is no "right or wrong" it is "intolerant" to say "thats just wrong" ..


      Polygamy is the abuse of women, it is the abuse of children even in "nice" LOOKING family like the Dargans ..


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    4. Then why didn't Browns go make it a test case instead of fleeing to Utah in fear?? Christine's been a public advocate for years. Seemed like the perfect thing to do instead of running away.

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    5. At least Winston Blackmore stayed in Canada and fought for it in court. He didn't turn tail and run like Warren Jeffs and Kody did.

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  56. Flipping back to houses for a moment - if you haven't read about this polygamist house, it's a great read!!

    REAL SISTERWIVES OF CENTENNIAL PARK, or HOW A POLYGAMIST MAN with a REAL JOB TAKES CARE OF HIS FAMILY, or THAT'S NO SPACE STATION, THAT'S A POLYGAMIST'S BIG ASS HOUSE!

    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/real-sisterwives-of-centennial-park-or.html

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    1. yes, i remember this post plus there's been a few special documentaries shown on TV re:Centennial Park. it's down the road aways from the Jeff's compound and looks night and day from it in housing. BUT it's still full of its own problems as has been shown in the documentaries. They are a break-off from years ago from the main FLDS compound in Colorado City.

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  57. I LOVED Kolleen - felt she was holding back a bit with Kodyilocks. I wonder if she had an impact on Janelle and/or Christine.

    I also wonder if she really meant it when she said something about seeing the Browns changed her view of polygamy.

    It did not sound like her for some reason. Anyway, I would love to see more of her. Heh...maybe she could rescue Janelle and Christine!

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    1. She definitely appeared to be cautious and still a little fearful and mistrusting of Kody. rightfully so. I'm sure she's watched the shows and has seen his little beady-eyed devil look he gets that she probably knows so well. I think she was just being kind and diplomatic in her closing remarks (she's also getting paid you know) and also probably actually liked Logan and Maddie since she knows they have no interest in participating in polygamy. She was able to just accept that Aspyn is just "a poor little brainwashed child" as she has plenty of experience on that to where she comes from.

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  58. Kolleen I hope is safe after being on the program. Is her mother out of the plygs? Just wondering as I saw both have facebook.
    Koko... you look great and you have also done well to get some training. I dont fear that you will ever go back. I hope that the Brown kids understand what you were trying to tell them. That if you have a mind, you can use it to think, you dont have to rely on what you have been told your whole life. Who could share 1 man? Willingly? I do not believe they know better though as it is brainwashed into them.
    I think Christine will suffer through. Janelle will get out as soon as the kids are raised, Meri will melt down into a puddle of self tanner and Robyn? Wow, she is something. I think she got involved as an actress. She knew when she met the Kode that they were going to do the show. She saw dollar signs and endless supply of Vickys secret panty collection. Her being part of abuse is plausable but, her husband only had the one wife. I think she needs to know she moved from simmering water into the boiling pot and all for the money.

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    1. lol - "meri will melt down into a puddle of self-tanner!"

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  59. Was it just me or did anyone even recognize the Brown family in the fake episode?? The wives were all happy acting w/each other and their kids and Kody was all acting like their life is just a sweet spiritual paradise HAH!! So ironic how the next week's previews come on and it's the Grody Brown Clown show back to their dysfunctional "normal" as always! Do they really think these people (including the two ladies in charge of the plyg shelter) NEVER watch their train wreck family week after week to know they were all on their "Sunday Best" behavior this time to impress them all w/their "plyg fairy tale family" they tried to sell? Just because no beatings are going on w/the Browns - is that the sure sign of a successful and emotionally healthy plyg family?? LOL LOL LOL

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  60. In my opinion this episode was just as abusive to those survivors (who thought the term "escapee" was the best term for them?) as the garbage they left behind. It made about as much sense as taking a woman from an abuse shelter to a prison cell block full of abusers. And for the producers to tell Kolleen to tone down her anger around Kody for fear that the King will become angered and will dismiss her - if that's not proof that Kody is a controlling abusive ass, I don't know what is.

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    1. While i don't recall myself or anyone else deeming it the "best" term, i've read enough firsthand accounts from plyg escapees where they themselves have used the words "terrifying and planned escapes" themselves. in no way is it meant by me nor seen as a derogatory term for those who have truly and miraculously pulled off a planned escape. Escapee is an accurate term - that's all. ;')

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  61. I've seen the new episode now...

    WOW- could Christine look anymore naive or uneducated or even fake?! And I say that as someone who (and this seems to be rare on this blog) genuinely LIKES the Browns, and actually especially Christine. I think the Browns love their kids and are genuinely nice, but chaotic people. The only issues I've had so far with the Browns are I) the bankruptcies and complete inability to handle finances and II) related to that Meri's odd wetbar and French doors selfishness (I like Meri otherwise, but her house issues are just... first world problems squared).

    Christine just seemed like a very bad actress especially at the end of the episode. This disappointed me even more as she used to be my favorite wife (now probably Janelle). I was pretty shocked when she abused Tonia Tewell at the beginning of the episode- without any specific allegation. If you have an issue with a person please state it clearly, so that that person can then address it. Instead she was just mean. I haven't been able to find anything even remotely negative about Tonia online- she had cancer and prayed for recovery and 'in return' for her recovery decided to start a helpgroup for polygamists. So...? Unless Christine has something specific to say or criticize she should rather hold it.

    I had tears in my eyes several times during the episode.

    Unfortunately the show omitted that the Kingston Group practice incest as central tenet. That really strongly annoyed me, cause that is so central to the Kingston Group.

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  62. Two PS:
    - Logan will be a very handsome man one day (I hope that's okay to say). But he really doesn't ever talk much, does he? ;)

    - Suzanne Steed was recently with her entire family on ABC 20/20, so you can see her story more in-depth there. The FLDS has recently banned all normal female hygiene products as well as sex between married couples.

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  63. Sorry, darn it- I forgot two more comments:
    - The sentence "What if I would have got out through Holding out Help" from Christine was just weird- this might be shocking to you under that rock of yours, Christine, but many women get a divorce, including two of your sisterwives. Newsflash: If you would have gotten a divorce you would not have just turned to ash that same moment.

    - I disagree with everyone who thought Kody was ogling Kollene or was being creepy when he said "I would be her husband". He just said it as it is in the Kingston Group and I didn't think it was creepy at all.

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  64. All i know is that i am VERY GRATEFUL i didn't have the luck of the draw to be born into the FLDS, Kingstons, AUB, etc. or even the Amish or Hutterites or Scientology or Children of God -just to name a few more- for that matter, too! They're all very oppressive religions (cults) for sure.

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